I am vegan, and i gave up honey and i encourage people to give it up, too. Here’s why ..

1. Honey is basically the bee’s survival food, accumulated slowly by collecting nectar from thousands of flowers. And it is meant to help them tide over tough times. It doesn’t seem decent or compassionate of humans NOT ethical to treat bees like slaves and cultivate their winter food for our consumption.

2. Honey is really ‘bee vomit’. Yes, that’s right, vomit. The stuff is regurgitated right from their stomachs after they collect it. People who quickly jump and say, “It’s pasteurized” should know that the process is not very useful because then, you’re destroying all the beneficial ‘Amylase’ (an ingredient which has predigestive properties).

And now to answer your first question: Veganism doesn’t have to be perceived as an absolute pure or strict avoidance of ALL THINGS even remotely touched by animals. It is simply a conscious and compassionate lifestyle that involves continuous refinement in the decisions that govern our choices, as you go. I don’t think using animal manure harms the animal in any way, or, say, robs it of a produce that threatens its life in any way.

There! My two cents.

To answer your first Q?
1. Not “all” organic farms use animal waste, a lot use human waste. By farming terms it is called [b]cake[/b]. what did you think happened to your turd after flushed it? Aside from that not all organic farms use animal manure, actually many don’t. They use what is called green manure, a green manure is a type of cover crop grown primarily to add nutrients and organic matter to the soil. As for the farms that use animals waste I don’t see a big problem in recycling a waste product, yes I wish that was a product that did not exist. But it does and it needs to be dealt with, as for using this as an argument to say that vegans are hypocrites, I say meat eaters are grasping at straws now.

2.Read this site thoroughly http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm [b]This part mainly [/b] http://www.vegetus.org/honey/ecology.htm [b]Honey bees are very bad for the enviroment…[/b]

Hope this answers your Questions

When it comes to fertilizers I would love it if no slavery induced crap was involved, but my control over this is equal to none, so I do my best to buy organic and fair-trade and hope for the best.

My prime concern in our ways of getting energy is to not contribute to enslavement of any being.
I sometimes say to vegetarians that if i was very very thirsty and a very sexy wild cow would come up to me, (she would have to be very sexy..)and offer me a sip on her nipple, maybe I would go for it…?
maybe….

The Myth of the Perfect Vegan

I must admit, sometimes I get so wrapped up in my veganism that I become legalistic towards my lifestyle in a way that’s counterproductive. We’ve had a lot of snow here in the UK these past few weeks, and this has got me thinking about purity, and what it means to have our sins made ‘white as snow’ through God’s grace.

As a vegan, it’s all too easy to become obsessed with the idea of being ‘pure,’ both physically and morally, in the decisions we make in life. I am currently facing the dilemma of whether or not to buy organic vegetables, since most organic farming involves fertilizing crops with blood, bone and other animal by-products. Organic vegetables that have been grown using only composted plant matter have been dubbed ‘veganic,’ but unfortunately the move towards this type of farming is extremely slow and isolated, and it would be near impossible to source all of your fruit and veggies this way (unless, of course, you are lucky enough to live near one of these rare veganic farms).

Here is a link to the Vegan Organic Network, in case you’re interested in their work:
http://www.veganorganic.net/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

You can read a discussion about the pros and cons of organic farming on ‘The Vegan Forum’ website. Clearly vegans are divided about this issue, and are unsure about what is the most ethical way to proceed. Eating organic entails a method of farming that involves the use of animal by-products in fertilizer, and thus arguably supports the very industry that vegans work so hard to avoid. However, not eating organic entails supporting farming methods that are harmful to the environment, and possibly human health.
You can read the debate here:
http://www.veganforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437

And also find more posts on veganic and organic food in general here:
http://www.veganforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=58

When I rang Abel and Cole (the company who deliver our weekly organic veg box) about this issue, I was told by their representative that I would need to hold the line while she asked around the office for more information.

‘Hold on a minute,’ said Katie, the woman who answered the phone, ‘I’ll just go and ask my colleague, as he’s a vegan and he’s likely to know a lot more about this.’

‘Thanks, that’d be great.’

Five minutes later, Katie returns to the phone.

‘Hi, thanks for waiting. Okay, so I’ve spoken to my vegan friend, and unfortunately he says that you just have to get over it, really, that it’s impossible to avoid in this instance as animal by-products are involved in almost all farming, and you just need to move on. And he is a committed vegan, so…’

‘Right. Okay. It just seems a bit sad that, as a vegan, I can’t buy organic veg that haven’t been fertilized with blood and bone.’

‘Yes, it is strange isn’t it?’

Despite not really knowing much about it, the representative that dealt with my call was incredibly helpful, and asked for my email address so that she could send more information to me once she’d called suppliers. I asked if she’d forward my concern about the issue, just to reinforce the fact that vegans care about this, and that it should be something that’s on the company’s radar. I hung up the phone feeling a bit defeated. My only vegan option would be to grow my own ‘veganic’ veg, which isn’t really possible for a student living in a second floor flat in the middle of Leamington Spa.

So, where do I go from here? I felt like collapsing under the weight of the impossibility of being a ‘pure’ vegan, of trying to eliminate my involvement in factory farming. Now I have to worry about my vegetables as well?! I have so much to learn, and my naivety about the extent to which factory farming permeates our way of life becomes more apparent to me each day.

Feeling overwhelmed, I reminded myself of the Vegan Society statement:
‘Veganism is a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose.’

As far as possible and practicable. I need to remind myself that sometimes I simply have to compromise; we live in a broken, flawed, and violent world, and by being a vegan I am choosing to live against the grain of what is considered ‘the norm’ in western society. I could go and live in the countryside and grow my own ‘veganic’ veg, and perhaps in some people’s eyes that would make me a better vegan. But, I strongly feel that it is more important that vegans are dispersed throughout society as opposed to congregating together in an ‘alternative’ community that operates independently, as the latter just wouldn’t be an effective way to usher in change. It’s true that being a vegan can be an incredibly isolating experience; at the party, you’ll probably be the only one that cares about whether or not there’s a ‘V’ on the back of the wine bottle, and that can be frustrating. (I don’t realise the extent to which I experience this isolation until I go to a vegetarian restaurant and feel an immediate kinship with everyone there in a way that always surprises me.)

I have to operate in a world that on the whole views animals as factory parts, as opposed to the living, breathing, feeling creatures that God created them to be. Because of this fact, it is impossible for me to come anywhere close to being a ‘pure’ vegan.

http://theveganchristian.blogspot.com/

No one has to eat honey..it is different with fields and animal mazure.

Most vegans can not choose to grow their own food and use other fertilizers like compost made from plants and their own human waste, or fertilizer made from algaes and stone meal(which is also often used in organic famring because it has micro minerals and other stuff which is not found in normally used fertilizer).

So you can choose not to use honey, but often you have no choice with the fertilizers..you have to live with that.

But because of the high ammount of chemicals and antibiotics in the waste of farm animals i try to buy as much organic as i can.
So at least there are not as much chemicals in my food.

The other point with the food, pollinated with bees, is the same as with the fertilizing of fields.

You have not really a choice….

And also honey bees endanger wild bees and other insects.

Honey bees are one race out of 1000s in a country..and all these bees and other insects which pollinize are often specialised on only a couple of plants..and this is where they pollinate best…better than honey bees.

But because honey bees work in such a high number, they seem to pollinate more efficient..but take all the nectar and pollen away which leaves nothing for the wild, specialised insects which then starve.

It was in ireland or scotland where a kind of clover was imported to use it as famr animal feed.

But the fields brought no seeds…the farmers could not harvest seeds to use them on other fields.

No one knew why, but then they found the reason.

The clover could only be pollinized, not by bees but only by a sort of bumblebees. The honey bees took the nectar out of the flowers, but did not pollinate the flowers.

Only the bumble bees did and they had to be imported from the mainland.

So you see, there are more problems to honey and honey bees than just animals and their product.

That is also why bumble bees are used to pollinate tomatoes

But you can help the wild bees a bit with building wild bee hotels out of straw, clay and wood(wild bees do normally not sting so they are save even with small children)

Also seeding plants in the garden which will give the wild bees food is usefull. Honey bees concentrate on large ammounts of flowers..like a whole field of apple trees.

Small patches of wild flowers are often not used by bees if there is a big field with other flowers or flowering trees near bye..so small patches of flowers in your garden can help wild bees and other insects very much.