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	<title>Comments on: If There&#8217;s A Toxin in the Food Supply But No Corporation to Blame, Is it Still A Problem?</title>
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		<title>By: Norm</title>
		<link>http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2010/01/13/if-theres-a-toxin-in-the-food-supply-but-no-corporation-to-blame-is-it-still-a-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-69679</link>
		<dc:creator>Norm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:16:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eatdrinkbetter.com/?p=2732#comment-69679</guid>
		<description>Further research will awaken you to the facts that the big M has purchased most of the seed companies;modified their own so that you have to purchase from them each year;food grown from the seeds are unfit for human consumption;seventy five per cent of food on store shelves today are GMO;seeds from their crop fields blow over and contaminate others; their agents everywhere sue neigboring farmers for their property; over two hundred thousand Asian farmers have committed suicide because of them; 
and they (M) are in cahoots with all the agencies that people think are protecting them. It&#039;s all about money,(taking it from you), control of people and the entire planet, and depopulation ( they want it down to five hundred million mico-chipped in the very near future). The good food and seeds are in the DUMBS (deep underground military bases-search youtube) some 1500 worldwide,..136 in the USA that are connected from north to south, east to west and more, also into Canada.They spray chemicals from planes almost daily worldwide; have poisoned our water supply; and now our food. There are sooo many issues that need addressed. Immediate awareness being first,followed by positive action to take our power back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Further research will awaken you to the facts that the big M has purchased most of the seed companies;modified their own so that you have to purchase from them each year;food grown from the seeds are unfit for human consumption;seventy five per cent of food on store shelves today are GMO;seeds from their crop fields blow over and contaminate others; their agents everywhere sue neigboring farmers for their property; over two hundred thousand Asian farmers have committed suicide because of them;<br />
and they (M) are in cahoots with all the agencies that people think are protecting them. It&#8217;s all about money,(taking it from you), control of people and the entire planet, and depopulation ( they want it down to five hundred million mico-chipped in the very near future). The good food and seeds are in the DUMBS (deep underground military bases-search youtube) some 1500 worldwide,..136 in the USA that are connected from north to south, east to west and more, also into Canada.They spray chemicals from planes almost daily worldwide; have poisoned our water supply; and now our food. There are sooo many issues that need addressed. Immediate awareness being first,followed by positive action to take our power back.</p>
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		<title>By: World&#8217;s Largest Producer of Toxic Chemicals, MNI, Continues to Contaminate the Entire Food Supply : Eat. Drink. Better.</title>
		<link>http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2010/01/13/if-theres-a-toxin-in-the-food-supply-but-no-corporation-to-blame-is-it-still-a-problem/comment-page-2/#comment-66229</link>
		<dc:creator>World&#8217;s Largest Producer of Toxic Chemicals, MNI, Continues to Contaminate the Entire Food Supply : Eat. Drink. Better.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jan 2010 05:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eatdrinkbetter.com/?p=2732#comment-66229</guid>
		<description>[...] What is MNI? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] What is MNI? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Evz</title>
		<link>http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2010/01/13/if-theres-a-toxin-in-the-food-supply-but-no-corporation-to-blame-is-it-still-a-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-64282</link>
		<dc:creator>Evz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 03:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eatdrinkbetter.com/?p=2732#comment-64282</guid>
		<description>I think if they&#039;re interested in (a) behaving ethically, and (b) changing their reputation for behaving otherwise, M. needs to do change both their behavior and their method of response to criticism. They have (what appears to me) to be a well-documented history of hiding or falsifying data, to lead people to thing stuff is safe that isn&#039;t (agent orange, dioxin, pcb&#039;s, etc.). My hubby&#039;s a journalist, and I&#039;ve read numerous trade journals/ articles about M&#039;s propensity for censorship, even attempting to pressure journalists into saying things that are actively false. They have been basically caught trying to bribe officials, in Canada; they have (according to what I&#039;ve read and seen) actively tried to suppress scientific inquiry into whether certain of their GMO products are safe for consumption. They consistently fail to answer these concerns, except in the format of a press release. Why not be interviewed by Robert Kenner, for &#039;Food Inc.&#039;? Why not explain away the data, in &#039;The World According to Monsanto?&#039; I am not a radical activist; consumers like me have no vested interest in viewing Monsanto or anyone else as the devil, if in fact they aren&#039;t. But I&#039;m also not stupid. There&#039;s some shady stuff in Monsanto&#039;s history, and I need a heck of a lot more than PR from them, if I&#039;m gonna believe that they&#039;re not still as unpleasant a company as ever. The reason this study is getting such press, I think, is because it&#039;s part of a very consistent pattern for this company, in which safety research is inadequate or suppressed. Then the products cause health &amp;/or environmental problems later (after the profit&#039;s already made, and the ecosystem permanently changed in ways we don&#039;t fully understand, and can&#039;t fix).

I look forward to reading &#039;Tomorrow&#039;s Table,&#039; which advocates a joint use of RESPONSIBLY MANAGED GM crops and organic farming, for maximum yield with minimum impact... I don&#039;t necessarily think it has to be all one way or the other. But the way that GM technology has been handled to date has been, imo, wildly irresponsible... and that&#039;s squarely on Monsanto. I think we&#039;re suckers if we don&#039;t notice and comment on that.

Sorry to go on; it&#039;s late, and there&#039;s some paperwork I&#039;m trying to avoid...
;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if they&#8217;re interested in (a) behaving ethically, and (b) changing their reputation for behaving otherwise, M. needs to do change both their behavior and their method of response to criticism. They have (what appears to me) to be a well-documented history of hiding or falsifying data, to lead people to thing stuff is safe that isn&#8217;t (agent orange, dioxin, pcb&#8217;s, etc.). My hubby&#8217;s a journalist, and I&#8217;ve read numerous trade journals/ articles about M&#8217;s propensity for censorship, even attempting to pressure journalists into saying things that are actively false. They have been basically caught trying to bribe officials, in Canada; they have (according to what I&#8217;ve read and seen) actively tried to suppress scientific inquiry into whether certain of their GMO products are safe for consumption. They consistently fail to answer these concerns, except in the format of a press release. Why not be interviewed by Robert Kenner, for &#8216;Food Inc.&#8217;? Why not explain away the data, in &#8216;The World According to Monsanto?&#8217; I am not a radical activist; consumers like me have no vested interest in viewing Monsanto or anyone else as the devil, if in fact they aren&#8217;t. But I&#8217;m also not stupid. There&#8217;s some shady stuff in Monsanto&#8217;s history, and I need a heck of a lot more than PR from them, if I&#8217;m gonna believe that they&#8217;re not still as unpleasant a company as ever. The reason this study is getting such press, I think, is because it&#8217;s part of a very consistent pattern for this company, in which safety research is inadequate or suppressed. Then the products cause health &amp;/or environmental problems later (after the profit&#8217;s already made, and the ecosystem permanently changed in ways we don&#8217;t fully understand, and can&#8217;t fix).</p>
<p>I look forward to reading &#8216;Tomorrow&#8217;s Table,&#8217; which advocates a joint use of RESPONSIBLY MANAGED GM crops and organic farming, for maximum yield with minimum impact&#8230; I don&#8217;t necessarily think it has to be all one way or the other. But the way that GM technology has been handled to date has been, imo, wildly irresponsible&#8230; and that&#8217;s squarely on Monsanto. I think we&#8217;re suckers if we don&#8217;t notice and comment on that.</p>
<p>Sorry to go on; it&#8217;s late, and there&#8217;s some paperwork I&#8217;m trying to avoid&#8230;<br />
 <img src='http://c1eatdrinkbettercom.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Steve Savage</title>
		<link>http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2010/01/13/if-theres-a-toxin-in-the-food-supply-but-no-corporation-to-blame-is-it-still-a-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-64275</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Savage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eatdrinkbetter.com/?p=2732#comment-64275</guid>
		<description>Evz,

Thanks for the comment.  I&#039;m very concerned about ethics as well.  I would say we are a long way from knowing that the recent GMO corn study has surfaced an ethical problem.  The Bt corn in the study has probably saved many lives by reducing aflatoxin and fumonisin in the food supply.  That study does not even begin to &quot;prove&quot; any negative effects.  I just had lunch yesterday with the world expert on the extent to which Greenpeace and the EU in general are responsible for blocking all sorts of technology for poor African farmers (not just GMO).  To me that is a much bigger ethics issue</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evz,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment.  I&#8217;m very concerned about ethics as well.  I would say we are a long way from knowing that the recent GMO corn study has surfaced an ethical problem.  The Bt corn in the study has probably saved many lives by reducing aflatoxin and fumonisin in the food supply.  That study does not even begin to &#8220;prove&#8221; any negative effects.  I just had lunch yesterday with the world expert on the extent to which Greenpeace and the EU in general are responsible for blocking all sorts of technology for poor African farmers (not just GMO).  To me that is a much bigger ethics issue</p>
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		<title>By: Evz</title>
		<link>http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2010/01/13/if-theres-a-toxin-in-the-food-supply-but-no-corporation-to-blame-is-it-still-a-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-64270</link>
		<dc:creator>Evz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 02:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eatdrinkbetter.com/?p=2732#comment-64270</guid>
		<description>Good article- thanks for posting. I think that ANY problem with our food supply is a problem, and should be addressed... but something that occurs spontaneously is quite different from a problem deliberately created. DON is a car crash caused by icy conditions; the problem list generated by Monsanto&#039;s business practices is a crash caused by sabotaged brakes. Both need to be dealt with; but, yeah, from an ethics standpoint, one bothers me more than the other!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article- thanks for posting. I think that ANY problem with our food supply is a problem, and should be addressed&#8230; but something that occurs spontaneously is quite different from a problem deliberately created. DON is a car crash caused by icy conditions; the problem list generated by Monsanto&#8217;s business practices is a crash caused by sabotaged brakes. Both need to be dealt with; but, yeah, from an ethics standpoint, one bothers me more than the other!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Savage</title>
		<link>http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2010/01/13/if-theres-a-toxin-in-the-food-supply-but-no-corporation-to-blame-is-it-still-a-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-64263</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Savage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 01:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eatdrinkbetter.com/?p=2732#comment-64263</guid>
		<description>Shane,  Thanks for your comment.  On the &quot;Thanks Mom&quot; thing. I ran that section by my wife and she asked the same thing.  I was making a reference back to the idea that Mother Nature was the manufacturer of these toxins.  Obviously it didn&#039;t work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shane,  Thanks for your comment.  On the &#8220;Thanks Mom&#8221; thing. I ran that section by my wife and she asked the same thing.  I was making a reference back to the idea that Mother Nature was the manufacturer of these toxins.  Obviously it didn&#8217;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane</title>
		<link>http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2010/01/13/if-theres-a-toxin-in-the-food-supply-but-no-corporation-to-blame-is-it-still-a-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-64208</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eatdrinkbetter.com/?p=2732#comment-64208</guid>
		<description>I get the article and appreciate it very much.  Especially the urging to monitor risks.  But what the heck is the &quot;Thanks Mom&quot; about eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get the article and appreciate it very much.  Especially the urging to monitor risks.  But what the heck is the &#8220;Thanks Mom&#8221; about eh?</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Savage</title>
		<link>http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2010/01/13/if-theres-a-toxin-in-the-food-supply-but-no-corporation-to-blame-is-it-still-a-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-64173</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Savage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 12:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eatdrinkbetter.com/?p=2732#comment-64173</guid>
		<description>Becky,
thanks for your comment and the link.  I probably won&#039;t be able to comment on that till the weekend as I&#039;m getting my daughter moved in for school in Boston this week.  

James, 
I don&#039;t really think it is a red herring.  The French study is also about food safety

Jess,
Before I really weigh in on that study I&#039;m going to talk to several actual toxicologists.  The interpretation of high-rate feeding studies is always tricky.  I  would actually like to see raw data or at least understand the statistics used.

Derek,
Very interesting comment.  I guess I see this not as an argument between environmentalists and the bad guys (in their) book and more as a debate about what environmentalism is.  I think there is a branch of it that tends towards anti-human.  That is why I was glad to see a recent release from Greenpeace saying they might need to re-think their position on things like Golden Rice

I like your Italian Mother analogy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Becky,<br />
thanks for your comment and the link.  I probably won&#8217;t be able to comment on that till the weekend as I&#8217;m getting my daughter moved in for school in Boston this week.  </p>
<p>James,<br />
I don&#8217;t really think it is a red herring.  The French study is also about food safety</p>
<p>Jess,<br />
Before I really weigh in on that study I&#8217;m going to talk to several actual toxicologists.  The interpretation of high-rate feeding studies is always tricky.  I  would actually like to see raw data or at least understand the statistics used.</p>
<p>Derek,<br />
Very interesting comment.  I guess I see this not as an argument between environmentalists and the bad guys (in their) book and more as a debate about what environmentalism is.  I think there is a branch of it that tends towards anti-human.  That is why I was glad to see a recent release from Greenpeace saying they might need to re-think their position on things like Golden Rice</p>
<p>I like your Italian Mother analogy</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2010/01/13/if-theres-a-toxin-in-the-food-supply-but-no-corporation-to-blame-is-it-still-a-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-64158</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eatdrinkbetter.com/?p=2732#comment-64158</guid>
		<description>Nice post Steve,

Thanks for the heads-up on mycotoxins! I would like to see another post with more info on the strategies employed by modern(rich) vs. old(poor) peoples for dealing with these problems from a food storage and agro. Perspective, if you had the time. 

I would offer up the idea that the confusion over the &#039;logic&#039; of environmental movement campaigning is misplaced ...it is not a rational &#039;left-brain&#039; cool analysis of available evidence the way we scientists would like. I think that it is more a &#039;first-principles&#039; position which is then rationalized onto everything else.

That first-principle is that man makes up ideas and then forces his view of reality onto the world; instead of man letting his view of the world conform to &#039;nature&#039; and hence living in &#039;harmony&#039; with it.

The reason why environmentalists seem to be at such loggerheads with just about everything is that the predominant world view (religious, while at the same time not dependant on any one religion) is that man is special and in particular his brain and hence ideas allow for the &#039;re-making&#039; of the world around him. For this reason environmentalists are always mad, or lashing out at seemingly bizarre and small things, or their anger is misplaced (such as in this study). 

To them a piece of concrete is a &#039;blasphemy&#039; against nature, as nature makes perfectly good stone, so why do we not use that, changing the way we build rather than changing the &#039;nature&#039; of rock to simplify building.

I think that when seen by this light the answer to your question is &#039;the source&#039;, but it is much deeper then &#039;Corporate vs. Mother Nature&#039;. 

The &#039;Friend or Foe&#039; header is maybe a little too black/white ...I like to think of her more like a big fat Italian Mother harsh and demanding with a wooden spoon at the ready any time anyone does something stupid, but also full of acquired knowledge willing to share it if only we would stop running around trying to steal a fist full of sugar or warm cookie all the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post Steve,</p>
<p>Thanks for the heads-up on mycotoxins! I would like to see another post with more info on the strategies employed by modern(rich) vs. old(poor) peoples for dealing with these problems from a food storage and agro. Perspective, if you had the time. </p>
<p>I would offer up the idea that the confusion over the &#8216;logic&#8217; of environmental movement campaigning is misplaced &#8230;it is not a rational &#8216;left-brain&#8217; cool analysis of available evidence the way we scientists would like. I think that it is more a &#8216;first-principles&#8217; position which is then rationalized onto everything else.</p>
<p>That first-principle is that man makes up ideas and then forces his view of reality onto the world; instead of man letting his view of the world conform to &#8216;nature&#8217; and hence living in &#8216;harmony&#8217; with it.</p>
<p>The reason why environmentalists seem to be at such loggerheads with just about everything is that the predominant world view (religious, while at the same time not dependant on any one religion) is that man is special and in particular his brain and hence ideas allow for the &#8216;re-making&#8217; of the world around him. For this reason environmentalists are always mad, or lashing out at seemingly bizarre and small things, or their anger is misplaced (such as in this study). </p>
<p>To them a piece of concrete is a &#8216;blasphemy&#8217; against nature, as nature makes perfectly good stone, so why do we not use that, changing the way we build rather than changing the &#8216;nature&#8217; of rock to simplify building.</p>
<p>I think that when seen by this light the answer to your question is &#8216;the source&#8217;, but it is much deeper then &#8216;Corporate vs. Mother Nature&#8217;. </p>
<p>The &#8216;Friend or Foe&#8217; header is maybe a little too black/white &#8230;I like to think of her more like a big fat Italian Mother harsh and demanding with a wooden spoon at the ready any time anyone does something stupid, but also full of acquired knowledge willing to share it if only we would stop running around trying to steal a fist full of sugar or warm cookie all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Jess @OpenlyBalanced</title>
		<link>http://eatdrinkbetter.com/2010/01/13/if-theres-a-toxin-in-the-food-supply-but-no-corporation-to-blame-is-it-still-a-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-64130</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess @OpenlyBalanced</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 00:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://eatdrinkbetter.com/?p=2732#comment-64130</guid>
		<description>Darn. I was hoping you would respond the Monsanto story, as I was interested to hear your take on it.

I agree with the previous commenter.  Shocking that the mycotoxin issue goes unreported, but only peripherally related to the concerns raised by the Monsanto corn issue.  And while I think people do need to understand the basic concepts of relative risk, part of the problem is that when it appears that corporations, the government, or any other entity are being secretive about the relevant information, it makes it very difficult to make personal decisions based on risk-tolerance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darn. I was hoping you would respond the Monsanto story, as I was interested to hear your take on it.</p>
<p>I agree with the previous commenter.  Shocking that the mycotoxin issue goes unreported, but only peripherally related to the concerns raised by the Monsanto corn issue.  And while I think people do need to understand the basic concepts of relative risk, part of the problem is that when it appears that corporations, the government, or any other entity are being secretive about the relevant information, it makes it very difficult to make personal decisions based on risk-tolerance.</p>
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